News

Waseda University released the second episode, “Stories of Statelessness: An Auto-Ethnographical Account; Invisible Individuals, Real Barriers: Rights, Identity, and Justice”, of its English language podcast series “Rigorous Research, Real Impact” on November 19, 2024. All podcast episodes are available for free on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, and YouTube.

Episode 2: “Stories of Statelessness—An Auto-Ethnographical Account; Invisible Individuals, Real Barriers: Rights, Identity, and Justice”

In this follow-up to episode one, Professor Lara Tienshi Chen (School of International Liberal Studies) serves once again as our guest expert. She takes the conversation even deeper this episode and continues to explore the theme of “statelessness”. Professor Chen was raised in Yokohama, Japan and spent more than 30 years of her life categorized as “stateless”. In episode two, she introduces her NPO Stateless Network and the impactful advocacy work they do. She talks about moonlighting as a documentary filmmaker and working with the student volunteer club Stateless Network Youth. She also explains her very difficult and complicated decision to ultimately take up Japanese citizenship.

“Waseda University Podcasts: Rigorous Research, Real Impact”

○Apple Podcasts

○Spotify

○Amazon Music

○YouTube

○Waseda University Website

About the Series:

Waseda University’s first ever English-language academic podcast titled “Waseda University Podcasts: Rigorous Research, Real Impact” is an 8-episode series broadly showcasing the diverse work of our renowned social sciences and humanities researchers. In each of the short 15-30 minute episodes we welcome a knowledgeable researcher to casually converse with an MC about their recent, rigorously conducted research, the positive impact it has on society, and their thoughts on working in Japan at Waseda. It’s a perfect choice for listeners with a strong desire to learn, including current university students considering graduate school, researchers looking for their next collaborative project, or even those considering working for a university that stresses the importance of interdisciplinary approaches. 

About the Guest:

Professor Chen obtained her PhD in International Political Economy from the University of Tsukuba. She went on to conduct research at the Chinese University of Hong Kong, Harvard University, and the University of Tokyo. She worked for the National Musuem of Ethnology, Osaka prior to joining Waseda’s School of International Liberal Studies in 2013. Professor Chen is also the founder of the NPO Stateless Network and works closely with the student volunteer club Stateless Network Youth.

About the MC: 

Kaivaliya is an India-based MC.  

Episode 2 Transcript:

Kaivalya (MC) (00:05):

Welcome back to the second part of our conversation with Professor Lara Tienshi Chen on Waseda University’s English podcast series, “Rigorous Research, Real Impact.” If you missed tuning into the first part, here’s a brief recap. We discussed Professor Chen’s book, “Stateless,” where she talked about her own personal journey, in addition to sharing stories of numerous stateless individuals she interviewed throughout her research. Now, in this follow-up, we’ll dive deeper into her impactful work at Waseda University. Her research projects, and the innovative efforts towards addressing statelessness. Let’s get started.

Professor Chen, I do want to talk to you about your nonprofit endeavor, which is the “Stateless Network.” This network aims to support and protect stateless people in Japan. Could you please tell us a bit more about it? How did it start and what are some of the key activities and initiatives of the organization?

Professor Lara Tienshi Chen (Guest) (01:01):

The “Stateless Network” is an organization that supports stateless people, and it was founded in January 2009 to join with stateless people and take seriously the trouble they face and to work toward creating a society where people would not face discrimination for not possessing a nationality. There are various types of stateless people. Among them are those who do not have legal status and their concerns are very serious. They aren’t able to return to the country from which they were originally from and their lives in Japan are very restricted. Some cannot even work, or go to hospital and so on. The “Stateless Network” is raising awareness about these issues both in Japan and abroad and is aiming for a society where stateless people can also live in comfort.

We have two main activities. The first one is the consultation portal. We offer consultation for people who face problems relating to being stateless. And we try to connect them to some service they need or connect them to the lawyer. And recently we also had one problem, a lady, you know, lived underground without any ID card for over 32 years. And now we have the support from overseas and got her….we found that she can get a nationality. So, we supported her to get back to the country where she belonged and also to come back again and marry her partner living in Japan. Another activity we do is to try to share the information and advocate for a greater understanding of the issue of statelessness in Japan.

Kaivalya (MC) (03:14):

Thank you so much for that. And yes, just connected to that, you know, you were talking about how spreading awareness is the first step. And what really struck me from the book is, of course, there are logistic problems, and things like that, to being stateless. But what really stood out to me was the denial sometimes of basic human rights, like medical care or the right to marry and things like that. And I don’t think those are things that people often think about. As you know, statelessness is a very complex problem and probably a political problem to tackle. Just from your research and your personal experiences, what do you think are some of the starting points that we should just take care of to create a support system? Of course, raising awareness is one, but what do we really need to do to make sure stateless individuals are supported in our society?

Prof. Chen (Guest) (04:04):

That’s very important. I think in today’s social system, they take nationality for granted. And in many times, human rights are based on nationality. If you have a nationality, then your human rights start from it. But I think it’s a bit strange, you know, because human beings are already there no matter their nationality whether it is Japanese or, you know, Indian or without any nationality, we do have to give human rights to these people. I think that today’s society is a bit, you know, opposite. So, from the top down, but not from the grassroots. I am, as an anthropologist, I try to… you know, face one by one every individual and support what they need. When they say they need healthcare, we try to connect them to the people providing healthcare. And when they say they want to get married, we try to find the information for people without, you know, nationality. So, they can have a stable marriage or end up meeting their goal. I think that’s very important as a human being to see every individual to have an equal right. That’s what I’m trying to do, not to see every individual from the top down and give the nationality then your human rights start. You know, that’s the opposite of what I think.

Kaivalya (MC) (05:58):

That’s very well explained actually, and I think is really relevant. In today’s world, we have so much globalization and a lot of conflict. So, there’s a lot of migration, people being displaced or people moving for opportunities just around the world. And so, this is something that people do need to be aware of, especially what you’re talking about, which is human rights starting from the grassroots level, just because, you know, we are humans first. So, you know, you did talk about the support that this group is giving. What I also wanted to ask is, what are some of the models or some innovative approaches one could take just based on your research or based on what you’ve observed? What could some of these models be to, you know, address statelessness, whether that’s at a small level or even a slightly broader level?

Prof. Chen (Guest) (06:47):

Ah, you mean in society or to raise awareness. Yes.

Kaivalya (MC) (06:54):  

I mean to raise awareness and to provide a support system. So, you know, what kind of models or what kind of things can be built to create a structure for this?

Prof. Chen (Guest) (07:04):

Okay, yes. As I mentioned, we have the consultation, the legal consultation platform. Another thing we are very good at is establishing the student group, which is called the “Stateless Network Youth” group.

The “Stateless Network Youth” visited the Tawau, where many stateless kids are living, and also to the island where the Bajau people, the stateless people are living, and have the cultural exchange, or they will support those stateless kids. And yes, we emphasize students to do this fieldwork and contribute to support these stateless kids. At the end of this fieldwork and activity, our students were inspired, and they published a picture book called “Rainbow Pendant” based on my life story to try to let more stateless kids, let them to not be shamed as the stateless, but rather have their power from themselves. This is one good case that started from the student. Another case is when the students produced the game based on the stateless.

So, we have the game called “Jinsei” game in Japan, “the game of life.” Let people live as they were. Students produce this stateless version of the game, and this advocates people to know about the real life of the stateless through the game and also through the picture book. These are very helpful.

Kaivalya (MC) (09:11):

Thank you so much for that. I’d also like to know a little bit about your personal experiences, just going back to what you talked about in the book. What I found really interesting is you mentioned that you made a film and that was one of the first things that you did. Can you tell us a bit about that experience just deciding to create a film about this and also what you learned from it or if there were any challenges?

Prof. Chen (Guest) (09:35):

Actually, I think reading the theoretical article is not what many people would like to do but the film is easier you know. That is more effective than writing a thesis. That’s why I decided to film people. But actually, filming is not easy as well, I found out. So, I visit people in Brunei, in Malaysia, and also in the Philippines, and try to talk with them. But through this project, I do have to build the… you know, trust between them. So, in order for them to be okay to show their face or show their real life, I do have to go into deep, deep and deeper into their living and experience, sometimes may hurt them, but fortunately, they trust me, and they are willing to support and willing to show their face and share their story. I think this will be very attractive for the people to see that watching it, that’s more you can feel it by watching the documentary, I think is a very effective way.

Kaivalya (MC) (11: 03):

That’s very interesting. And another sort of related question I wanted to ask is about your book. So, what is your favorite part of the book “Stateless”? Something you enjoyed writing about or you thought was something that you would be very excited to share.

Prof. Chen (Guest) (11:17):

I don’t enjoy writing actually. It’s very hard for me to write something. You know, it’s not easy to write a book. I spend a lot of time writing a book, so I’m not enjoying that. I do feel the responsibility to share the story of every individual who I interviewed because they trusted me and wanted to share their life with me. So, I think through me, I should reach more people and let more people know about their lives, the stateless people’s lives, and let society be more equal and not discriminate against these people. That’s what I wanted to do and ended up by published.

Kaivalya (MC) (12:170:

So, another thing that I found very intriguing, and I wanted to talk to you about is your decision eventually to take up Japanese citizenship. In your book, you do talk about how that was a bittersweet experience for you because you were giving up on this identity you held for a large part of your life, but you also really needed to do this. So, can you talk a little bit about that decision and maybe how you felt through that?

Prof. Chen (Guest) (12:43):

That is a good question. I was very hesitant to naturalize when I was young but ended up naturalizing because I, as an anthropologist, I use myself as a case to see if one person, a stateless person, upon naturalizing and gaining nationality will change or not? I mean, the identity will change or not? How people perceive me will change or not, or how the government perceives me will change or not. And it is one reason I decided to naturalize and document all the procedures. And second, it’s a more practical reason. In order to go to Brunei to do my research on stateless people. I applied for a visa to enter Brunei, but I couldn’t get the visa because I was stateless. I decided to naturalize and get a Japanese passport. And when I had a Japanese passport, then it was easy for me to go and do research on stateless people. So, these are two reasons I decided to neutralize.

Kaivalya (MC) (14:16):

We really appreciate you sharing this personal story with us. I mean, I know it could not have been an easy decision to make. And also, it really sheds light on the dilemma many might face. So yes, before we close, I would actually like you to share just one thing from the book or from this conversation that you would like our listeners to take away. So, if there was one thing you would want them to keep in mind. What would that be?

Prof. Chen (Guest) (14:42):

I think one cannot choose where to be born, which country to be born, or also cannot choose which parents to be born. But nationality is almost always determined by it. Today, globalization as you say, migration and globalization, create some people with multiple nationality and some without any nationality. So, I began to think about what nationality in this globalization is. Is nationality still valid? It is not right to have human rights only when you have nationality. People should have human rights whether they have nationality or not. So stateless people should be treated equally. That’s what I want to share with you. Thank you.

Kaivalya (MC) (15:41):

With this, we come to the end of our conversation with Professor Chen. Professor Chen, thank you for this enlightening discussion. It was indeed a pleasure talking to you and learning so much about a topic that is so important, yet so under the radar. We wish you all the best with your work and all you’ve set out to achieve. And thank you, listeners, for joining us today. We hope this episode helps you understand the complexity of the issue and the challenges faced by stateless individuals, besides the incredible work being done to advocate for their rights.

For more such stories and insights from the corridors of Waseda University, don’t forget to subscribe and tune in to the next episode on “Rigorous research, Real impact.” Until then, take care and stay curious.