My Husband’s a Nurse… and an Alcoholic. Help!
Speaker A: Welcome to Dear Prudence. I’m your guest, Prudence Kristen Mezer. I host a couple of other podcasts including Buy the Book and how to Be Fine. Be sure to check them out if you love self help books, hate self help books, or want advice on how to be okay ish rather than perfect. Today we’ll be answering questions from a concerned spouse over their husband’s drinking, a mom trying to get her daughter to apologize to her aunt, and someone who can’t avoid going down the rabbit hole of social media. Here to help me out is Vic Whity Berry. They’re an audio producer with work published at npr, Spotify, the Wall Street Journal. Vic is a superstar. Vic, welcome to the show.
Speaker B: Oh my gosh, it’s so great to be here. Thank you for having me.
Speaker A: You are so kind, so clever and so smart. So we’re just thrilled to have you here to bring all of that to the listeners. But before we get started, we ask a question of all of our guests. What is one piece of unsolicited advice that you would give to the world unprompted? What is your bit of advice? Vic?
Speaker B: Okay, so this is my own little mantra when my anxiety brain gets a little too loud or my depression brain gets a little bit too loud. And I’m not saying that I follow it all the time, but it’s a good kind of mental grounding exercise for me. And it’s not about you how someone treats me. If something ends up the way that I don’t want it to, it’s probably not about me. I am pretty confident knowing that I did the best that I could given the materials that I had. And if I feel that way, then that means that it’s probably a bazillion other things that I have no control over and that I am probably not privy to know. And so I’m not saying that you shouldn’t take responsibility when you do things wrong. It’s just like I think most of us, if we care, most of us are trying to do the best that we can and are trying to put our best foot forward most of the time. And it’s a practice, a freeing practice of self compassion where I’m like, you know what? We know we did our best and however this outcome came out, it’s probably not about me and we can move on. So that’s my big one. I’m not saying I follow it all the time. It’s one that I continue to teach myself and reteach myself.
Speaker A: I love that bit of advice and Also, I think it’s really true. I agree with you. You know, 99 times out of 100, the person who’s driving like a jerk and turning into the walk lane when I’m trying to cross the street, it’s not because they’re trying to kill me. It’s because they don’t care. They’re in their own head. They’re doing their own thing. Ex 9 times out of 10, it’s not about me, it’s about them. It’s about where they’re at at the time. It’s about what they’re thinking aboutact. They’not think about me.
Speaker B: Very few times is it actually personal. And usually when it is personal, they’re going to be very clear about that. It’s personal a lot.
Speaker A: Oh, yeah, you’ll know. You’ll usually know if it’s about you.
Speaker B: Right? Exactly. So that’s my go to. It’s one that I probably will continue learning for the rest of my life, but that’s my go to one.
Speaker A: I think it’s a long process to really internalize it, even if intellectually we know that’s true. At least that’s been the case for me. I remember the first time my nanaa told me exactly this. I was a kid at the time, and she said, most of those kids aren’t even thinking about you. And I was bawling. I’m like, and isn’t that heartbreaking? And I’m like, no. Then it’s all about me. And she’s like, it’s not about you, honey. And so I heard it maybe about 800 more times over the course of my life before I finally started to really internalize it. So I agree with you, Vic. It can take a while to really believe it all the time, but I try to feel that way most of the time when I can. Exactly that it’s not about me.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: Thank you so much for that bit of advice. We’re gonna take a quick break, Vic. When we’re back, we are going to dive into all of our listener questions. Stay with us, everyone. Welcome back. You’re listening to Dear Prudence, I’m Kristen Mezer, and I am here with Vic Whitley Berry. Let’s get things started with our first letter titled It’s Definitely a Problem.
Speaker C: This letter is going to sound trite, but I’m hoping you can help me. My husband of 10 years objectively and undeniably has a drinking problem. He’ll easily polish off a bottle of liquor when he comes home each night during the week. And on weekends, he’ll start at noon, pass out asleep for a couple hours, wake up, and start the process again around 6pm upon waking up, he is argumentative but also confused, which makes for an extremely unpleasant night for me. He won’t remember things and will accuse me of things that are patently untrue. I try not to engage or argue back because I know it won’t go anywhere, but that makes him matterd. I’d call it gaslighting, except he truly believes he never did or said xyz. It’s gotten to the point where I want to record our arguments so I have proof he did do those things and that I’m not crazy. It’s impossible, after all, to fight with someone who thinks they’re never wrong. I know the drinking is the result of deep depression. He’s just starting to get help for that. So I’m hoping once he addresses that issue, maybe the drinking and fighting will improve. I also know you can’t help someone who doesn’t want to help himself. And no amount of pleading or ultimatums will make someone with a drinking problem give up alcohol if he himself doesn’t want to do so. I guess my question is, what do I do in the meantime? Put up with his behavior, Continue to try to challenge him, Keep addressing it when he’s sober. The kicker is that he’s a critical care nurse and I’m sure he knows what alcoholism is, but he’s told me numerous times he doesn’t have a problem.
Speaker B: Oh my gosh.
Speaker A: Let writer. Oh, I am so sorry.
Speaker B: Yeah, no kidding.
Speaker A: This is a terrible, terrible situation. The yelling at you, the argumentativeness, the disagreeing about what they actually said, all of it is just. It’s putting you in a terrible spot. I’m so sorry about all of this. And I. My heart just goes out to you because it’s tough and it sounds like you’ve been trying really hard. You been trying to keep your distance during fights. You’ve been trying to, you know, protect yourself here. But there are absolutely more things I think you can do. But Vic, I would love your initial reactions as well.
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I think this is a very distressing place to be, both as the spouse and as the person going through it. Like, I am not an expert on substance use disorder. I’m not going to claim to be, but if this kind of behavior is happening the way that the letter writer describes it as, this seems very dangerous. And this really seems like there needs to be professional intervention at this point. And I also Know that this is a very precarious place to be right now because it seems like to me this person’s husband is not ready to take that step. Acknowledging that this has gotten to this point and the reading that I have done, a lot of them start with first continuing this conversation and doing it when he’s sober. Having these conversations when he’s intoxicated is just frankly not going to help. And you’re saying that he doesn’t remember them anyway. And it’s your safety matters. And I’m sure you also are very worried about your husband’s safety too, and your husband’s health. And this isn’t the same kind of situation. But I have had experiences in couples therapy that one of the best ways when you are in a point of conflict, instead of saying you’re doing this, you’re doing that, you’re the problem and trying to demand to be heard from that lens, most people shut down very quickly. And so I think from when you’re trying to continue this conversation, which I really think you need to, you need to continue this conversation with your husband that you were concerned about this. Frame it in a lot of I statements and I know this is an overuse thing, but I feel like it would be maybe more successful to get to him by saying I really miss feeling like I can connect with you and I don’t feel like I can connect with you when we’re drinking and then maybe suggest different outings together where you can control whether there’s alcohol there or not. Going on a walk in the park, going to the movies or going to places that you know. And you might have to not even explicitly say it, but if you’re the one that’s playingning the outing and ensuring that there won’t be alcohol present, that way you can have uninterrupted time with him where you can really try to connect with him in ways that I’m going to imagine you really miss. This is just so. It’s a heartbreaking situation and it really seems like this is a very dangerous situation for him.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I also suggest don’t doing it alone. I mean, if he’s acting this way, he’s probably has really close friends or family members that might be noticing it too. I hope so. I hope he’s not just doing this around you. I would ask if it needs to get to the level of like a sit down intervention situation, like ask someone to be there with you in solidarity to bring that conversation with him and say that you’re really worried about Him. And you want to support him?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: What about you? What do you think?
Speaker A: I totally agree that our letter writer should not be going this alone. There is help out there, there’s the support of friends and family, which you’ve already mentioned, Vic. But there are also organizations that, this is their specialty, right, Al Anon, there are therapists who specialize in substance abuse and I would seek those sorts of resources out immediately. They are going to give you tools, they’re going to help you with what you’re going through now. They’re going to help give you scripts, they’re going to help you set boundaries. Boundaries are really, really important here because letter writer, it sounds like you’ve tried to, you know, like, oh, I’m go going toa try to keep my distance when fighting is happening. But part of boundaries is making clear, as you said, Vic, in the sober moments, this is what I will put up with and this is what I won’t. And when it’s happening, to stand by that boundary, you say letter writer. Oh, when I say I don’t wanna be involved in these arguments and then I try to like distance myself, then he gets even more mad. Well, that’s too bad that he’s getting more mad. That’s on him. You need to extricate yourself. You need to stand by that boundary, state the boundary. When he’s sober, stick by that boundary again. Groups like Al Anon or therapists, they’re going to help you with that. You know, what kind of language will feel most comfortable for you to use, what kinds of tactics are going to protect you the most. And hopefully over time seeking out these kinds of resources, you’ll also realize how much you need to take care of yourself. Because it sounds right now like you’re doing so much to take care of him. What can I do about this? What can I do to prove to him that he’s doing these things? Should I be recording these conversations? And there’s only so much you can do to take care of someone who won’t take care of themselves, as you admit. Letter writing.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: You even know that yourself. There’s only so much you can do for someone who won’t take care of themselves. So I’m just going to urge you as much as possible, please take care of yourself. I’m not saying to stop loving your partner, loving your husband, love him, cheer for him as he’s getting, hope for his depression. Encourage that, tell him how proud you are of him for gettingting help for that, hopefully his medical team or his therapy team is good, and they’re going to address his alcoholism as part of the treatment. It’s also something that I think you can bring up at a certain point if you’re not comfortable doing it now, again, you can learn that language from groups like alanon. But really, above all, take care of yourself and please take care of your safety. Yeah, please do. Vick, you already alluded to this more than once. It sounds like this isn’t 100% a safe situation. When people are being irrational, when they’re yelling, when they don’t remember what they did the day before, it can be really dangerous. And it already is psychologically dangerous for you, but it could also become physically dangerous for you. So please use those resources. Take care of yourself. Also, if your husband is open to it, consider getting into couples therapy. Vic, I’m glad you mentioned couples therapy, because there are things that a therapist can help you say to each other and maybe get through to each other that maybe you’re not getting through to each other right now. So those are just some suggestions to get started. I feel so bad for you letter wr such a tough spot to be on.
Speaker B: Yeah. And one thing you had mentioned, just building off of really seeking out the support of close loved ones. I can imagine a situation where you’re so in this, it’s so all consuming that it can almost feel like even the idea of looking out for resources can Feels overwhelming, that it kind of freezes you in place. People love to be given a job, frankly, especially in times of crises. People love to be given a job. And that is something you can ask your community, your friends, your family to help you do, someone that you trust. I don’t know how many other people you’ve really talked to about this situation, but if this is the first time you’re bringing it up with someone outside of you and your husband and this letter, try to find someone that you know is going to. The first thing they’re always going to do is support you and say, hey, I am in this position and I don’t know how to move forward. The one thing I need right now before we do anything else is finding resources so I can take my next steps, both for myself and for my spouse. Like, you don’t have to do that by yourself. It, frankly, is probably really, really challenging to do that by yourself. And people love a job. And going to those resources, finding those therapists, going to al anon people, especially people that are t in it, have the capacity to do that for you and give you even a bulleted list of like 1, 2, 3 steps. 1, 2, 3. This is what we’re going to do.
Speaker A: Yeah, I found this Alanon meeting. It’s located six blocks from your house. It’s at this time. You know, things like that. They can give you all of that information if you give them the assignment to help you.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: And yeah, I totally agree with youv Vic. I say that all the time. People love assignments. People love helping. We really do love being told what to do to a certain extent. Especially when it’s in service of those we love.
Speaker B: Exactly. Best of luck to you. This sounds really hard.
Speaker A: Yeah, best of luck. Okay, our next question is titled Gift Trouble.
Speaker D: I love my daughter. She just graduated college with zero debt and taught herself how to be basically a professional chef. She has high standards but no grace. For anyone that doesn’t meet them, everything is an insult otherwise. My sister was very surprised and happy when her daughter, who was in her late 30s, started to cook of her volition and sending her pictures of the meals she made. Maybe it was just tacos, but she was proud. My niece said this cooking book really helped her so my sister bought it for my daughter. Since my daughter loves to cook. It was very much a baby’s first cookbook. My sister meant no harm. My daughter insists it is a backhanded insult to her and she talked at length about it to other family members and word got back to my sister. She is extremely hued and has canceled her holiday visit. Her mother is in her late 80s and in poor health. She is very upset about this and wants my daughter to apologize. My daughter refuses. According to her, she did nothing wrong and my sister always got her insulting gifts. Her examples were cutesy PJs and items from previous hobbies and interests. Like when she was hors mad and junior high. I don’t know how or when my daughter got this rigid. I taught her to say thank you for gifts even if they were unwanted. She had a lot of relationship problems in the last year because she just can’t find a man that measures up in her words. My sister doesn’t have a mean bone in her body. I really don’t know what to do here. My sister has limited means so she would have to stay with us during the visit. My daughter lives with us. I’ve tried to respect my daughter’s independence but I am this close to telling her to apologize or just go to her dad’s for the holiday. Then what now?
Speaker A: Oh letter writer. I am so sorry. This is irritating and to watch somebody you love Hurt other people you love. Oh, it can feel just overwhelming. Can feel helpless. Like, ugh.
Speaker B: And it sounds like she’s really caught in the middle here.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Which it does really, really sucks. And also, as someone who has very high standruardss of themselves and high standards and others, there’s a difference between having high standards and being cruel. You can have high standards and people, especially people that you care about or people that you, for whatever reason, hold high standards for. That doesn’t mean you have to be mean about it. It’s. Oh, my gosh.
Speaker A: Yeah. That being said, I am going to suggest to the letter writer that even though my initial reaction is like, o, what a brat. My suggestion is actually going to be to lead with curiosity and compassion for your daughter. I know it’s hard to be compassionate towards someone who’s being such a brat. And I’m not saying brat in the cool brat girl summerway. I’m like, this is like, she’s. She’s being a brat. She’s being.
Speaker B: Yeah, that’s something that seems so small, too. Yeah, it’s a cookbook. Like.
Speaker A: Yeah, But. But here’s what I’m getting from this. Your daughter is still young. She just graduated from college. People who are in their early 20s are just teenagers in legal adult bodies. Okay.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: Our brains are not fully cooked till we’re 25. We can be petulant. We can have issues with emotional regulation. We can have a lot of stuff going on when we’re in our early 20s. According to Brain doctors, We’not really adults, even if legally were allowed to drive cars and serve in the military or drink alcohol. But we’re not really adults yet. So just, you know, that’s something to keep in mind. We’re still learning how to grow up at that age. And it doesn’t necessarily help that she lives at home still, because a lot of us, when we’re at home with our parents, whether it’s staying at a parent’s house for the holidays or still living at home because we can’t afford to move out, sometimes it’s easy to fall into the role of acting like a child longer than we actually would normally act like a child. And so I think, you know, that can be a factor, too. Some other things that I think might be factors. You mention at the end of your letter. A father, and maybe I’m wondering if there are different standards in the different households when your daughter’s with her dad, what are those parenting standards like versus when your daughter’s at home with you? Is one of you really lenient? Is one of you overly strict? Is it the case that possibly your daughter never really adjusted to that family dynamic, and that’s part of, you know, what’s playing into her continuing to act kind of like a child here? Because I do think there’s lots of things that can be upsetting at home that cause us to kind of regress or not progress as much as we should. This is not me trying to blame you, letter writer. It’s just about being curious, being compassionate, and trying to see things from your daughter’s point of view. It sounds like you’re already trying to do that to a certain extent. You found out that your daughter feels condescended to through gifts that her aunt is giving her. So that’s a good first step. And I would dig into that a little bit more. And as you get more curious, then also maybe help her to see things from somebody else’s point of view and allow your daughter to get curious in turn. So one thing your daughter can get curious about is the fact that not everyone’s a great gift giver. I’m putting myself in this category, okay? I am the person who will accidentally give the pony gifts to the person who’s 16 now and they haven’t liked ponies since they were nine. I’m sorry to everybody I’ve given bad gifts to over the years. Some of us just. That’s not our thing. We’re not great at gifts. And me personally, one reason I’m bad at gifts isuse I don’t care about gifts. I really don’t if people give me presents or not. I just don’t care. I’d rather just spend time with you. I’d rather go on a walk with you or have coffee. I don’t need presents. And not everybody is s good at gifts. And that’s something to maybe get curious about too. What is, you know, what is her aunt better at? What are things that she excels at? Yes, she’s not necessarily good at gifts, but maybe there are other things she’s good at. Maybe she’s a really loving person. Maybe she’s just doing her best. Let’s dig into that. And just making clear to your daughter, like, just because someone’s not good at one area doesn’t mean they’re bad at all things, and it doesn’t mean there’s malice there.
Speaker B: Absolutely. I totally agree. And I also think this is actually a great opportunity to. To have the daughter and her aunt better understand each other. Like, clearly they’re not on the same page about how they relate to one another. And it sounds like from the way that the mom is writing this letter, that her daughter is going through, as most people do when they graduate college, a season of self determination. And she’s trying to assert, like, self autonomy and self authority and trying to find ways to express herself and to be clear about how she feels. One way she can do that without causing all of this is by saying, hey, aunt, I’m an adult now. You don’t need to give me gifts anymore. Like, like, just like, you don’t even need to say, I hated every other gift you gave me before that and returned them. But just be like, you know what? Like, don’t worry about it. Like, don’t feel like you need to bring gifts. I appreciate it, but I don’t need them anymore. You know what? It’s fine. And like, maybe this can be an opportunity if she feels. If this daughter feels like she’s being patronized to or. Or if it getifts like, these are patronizing to her, she can take this opportunity to be like, hey, instead of you feeling the need to get me a cookbook, let’s just cook together. I can cook you a meal. It really. I mean, I’m not really getting that vibe from this young woman, really. But I mean, you know, it’s a start. Like, this is an opportunity to be like. For them to. And maybe the mom has to facilitate this, and I’m sorry for that emotional labor. But, like, facilitating a dialogue between the two of them, that’s like, this is a good moment to better understand where each person is coming from.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And also, it sucks to be in the middle of things like this. And the other side of this coin is the fact that we’re all adults here. So ultimately, the letter writer can not control how both her sister reacts in the situation and how her daughter reacts in the situation. So if she gives this. If she proposes this as an opportunity and they both say, no, I don’t want to deal with it. That’s their decision because everybody. She doesn’t have control over what these people decide to do.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But dang, it’s a cookbooke.
Speaker A: It’s a cookbook. It is. Yeah. Just a couple of other things I would suggest to the letter writer, reiterate to your sister and to your mother, I love you. I really do want to spend the holidays with you. I am, you know, I’m so sorry that this is going on right now. It doesn’t change how much I love you. How much I appreciate you. Do what you can to reassert your own love for your sister and your mother and how much you want to spend the holidays with them. Of course, as you were saying, Vic, they might not want to spend them with you after this, but just double down on that. Make clear that there is still love there. And you know, as far as your daughter being an adult and wanting to assert herself as an adult, maybe also make clear one thing adults do is sometimes we apologize for things, even if we don’t fully feel them in our hearts. Sometimes we apologize because that’s how we keep the peace and make people feel loved. Yeah, sometimes we do that.
Speaker B: And you can even depending on how. I mean, it sounds like you and your daughter have a really close relationship. You talk about how proud you are of her. I mean, you can even maybe say, hey, I know you don’t feel like you need to, and I get that. It would really mean a lot to me if you apologize this one time so that we can try to move forward. And you know, like, again, I don’t really get the vibe that she wants to do this, but it’s worth a shot, you know?
Speaker A: Ye. Yeah. A final thing I just want to bring up. The letter writer brings up her daughter’s love life. Please never do that again. No, please don’t do that.
Speaker B: No, no. Women always need to have high expectations of men. Men have too low of expectations. But yes, men. I’m sorry. And it’s just not the same thing. Like, I really don’t think this is the same situation.
Speaker A: Yeah, they’re two different things.
Speaker B: They’re entirely different things. And I understand you are trying to. It makes sense that you would try to want to give context that this is not an isolated incident. But I don’t think these things are related. And I don’t think you aren’t necessarily trying to say that, but I think they are separate things.
Speaker A: Yeah. And I will say, as somebody who was once a 21 year old, 22 year old, 23 year old dating men, men that age, most of them don’t live up to decency standards. Most of them are little boys who are just figuring their s*** out. And a lot of them are not good at it. And so I don’t think your daughter’s wrong there that most of them don’t measure up because most of them are just like little kids still.
Speaker B: So.
Speaker A: Ye.
Speaker B: And why would you want to be miserable with someone who doesn’t measure up your standards? Yeah.
Speaker A: Yeah. I’m happily married to a grown up man now. But even he says he’s like, When I was 21, I was an idiot. Nobody should have married me at 21, you know? Yeah. So just keep that as a separate issue. Maybe you can think about it in your heart, but this doesn’t need to be part of this conversation. All right, you are listening to Dear Prudence. We are going to take a quick break and when we come back, we’ll be reading more of your letters. Stay with us, everyone. Welcome back to Dear Prudence. I’m Kristen Mezer sitting in for Janae, and I’m here with my guest, Vic Whitley Berry to answer your questions. The next one is titled Endlessly Scrolling.
Speaker E: I’m addicted to a particular aspect of the Internet. I spend hours and hours a day reading what people are up to. It’s not just people I specifically care about and find interesting, but I can’t look away from any source of reliable commentary from people, friends and family who overshare on Facebook, influencers who do walls of text in their stories, tiktokers talking to the camera, the endless scroll of Reddit and threads, comment sections on Dear Prudence. It’s become a mental rabbit hole that I can lose hours in and I don’t know where this came from. I’m not lonely. I have a lovely community of friends that I see in person frequently and my partner and I have a loving, emotionally connected relationship. I even have lots of long distance friends who love to text a lot. I’m overflowing with personal connection and I still can’t seem to stop myself from obsessively trying to fill my brain with other people’s stories and opinions. I’ve had the most luck with theeting, TikTok, Reddit and threads from my phone for weeks at a time. But I need to use Instagram sometimes for work and it’s just very hard to stay off the Internet. The main way this is impacting my life is that when I’m trying to work, I physically cannot stop myself from migrating to one forum or another every time I get distracted or in between tasks. I suspect I have adhd, but I don’t have great access to therapy and my insurance only covers one practice in my smallish town and both therapists I saw there were the okay, and how did that make you feel? Ad nauseam type practitioners. Do you have any ideas for me.
Speaker B: Kristen? When I tell you how much relief I had reading this letter because the first two were so heavy and I was like, man, I really need to be as like, compassionate as I Possibly can. And really think of all of the possible options that these app and this one feels so easy to make. I mean, this person already had a solution. Keep doing it. Delete them from your phone and never have them come back. It seems like that is one of the things that worked.
Speaker A: Keep doing it. Yes, yes, absolutely. Keep doing it. It sounds like the letter writer does need to keep Instagram for work, but here’s something you can do on Instagram. Unfollow everybody. Tell your loved ones, I am no longer having personal relationships on Instagram. Instagram I need to use for work. And that’s why I’m only following work, clients, work colleagues, whatever the work stuff is, and get rid of everybody else. If you must follow anyone on Instagram, make it like dogs or beavers or, you know, copy bors like I do. Don’t follow anybody where you’re gonna get sucked into stories, into drama, into mi. An a******. Get rid of all of that stuff and just make Instagram for work. Maybe a couple of animals, but mostly for work.
Speaker B: Yeah, also okay, I totally hear you on I need to have XYZ social media account for work. I mean, I’ve been a journalist for almost a decade and I definitely was one of those people who was like, oh, man, I need to get Twitter for work. I need to get Twitter for work. I had Twitter for work. B B, B B. And I would spend a lot of time on it. And as I started reevaluating my relationship with social media, because first of all, this is such an common problem and not to diminish it at all, like, so many people, myself included, relate to this all the time.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And when I really tried to think of like, okay, yes, I use Twitter for work, but do I use it enough that I need it on my phone that’s always with me all the time, or can I do the things that I need to do for it on work on my desktop, in my office? You know what I mean? And I even will do that with other social media accounts, frankly. Instagram, which the interface on Instagram on desktop is the worst on the phone. But it probably like just try it. Just see. Maybe give it. I don’t give it a day, give it a week. Like, try doing the work things you need to do on Instagram on your computer and see if that works for you.
Speaker A: You know, I would also, if you can time. When you do those kinds of Instagram tasks, time them so that they’re at the end of the day so they don’t take you away from other work. This is what I do in the final 30 minutes of every day as I go on Instagram and I do this stuff all those other times of the day. Letter writer, you’re mentioning when you have lulls in the day when you need to take a break, do something else that’s really enjoyable and pleasurable. Maybe that’s going to the coffee station and trying a different coffee each day. Maybe that’s taking a quick five minute walk around the floor of your building or around the block getting some fresh air. There are other really pleasurable things you can do that will get the serotonin going, the endorphins going in a way that you’re trying to get that hit off of Internet gossip.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: You know, and Internet gossip, it is a serotonin rush. It does get the endorphins going. So people who say, like, oh, I feel like I’m addicted, it’s because you are. Because those are real physical things that you’re experiencing the satisfaction of scrolling, of reading this, of getting sucked into that drama. But you can get that from other ways. Like I said, just taking a short walk can give you some of that same boost. Or, you know, talking with a friend in the hallway or in the break room, whatever it is. There are other things you can do that don’t involve technology that can give you that little bit of juice that you might want.
Speaker B: Yeah, and I was thinking the same thing of like, because I also am very good about hyper focusing on like the smallest, most menial tasks. It’s like one of my superpowers. And so I was like, what are other ways that that hyperocus comes out at me that I genuinely enjoy that don’t require using my phone. I love puzzles. Puzzles for me also do that same level of hyper fixation that I can sit and do it for a long period of time. I also have gotten into the hobby of making miniatures. I was recently on a trip abroad and wanted to bring some presents for myself back. And I ended up getting a miniature of something from a film that I really love. For the studio Ghibli fans, it’s How’s Castle? From How’s Moving Castle? And I made it from little from my little. My hands felt very big, much bigger than they usually are. But it’s like, it was astounding how focused I was and how this just consumed my brain of like, when can I, like, get back to making my castle again? And I’m looking at it right over my desk. It’s excellent and it brings me so much joy. And it’s like, it’s such a similar level of hyper focus that I get when I scroll TikTok. And it sounds like to me that you don’t necessarily want to quit, which is totally fine. So maybe in order to like, make sure that this is still in your life so you’re not constantly being like, when do I get to do this again? Physically schedule it into your plan day.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: So, like, we have 30 minutes while I’m drinking my coffee before getting into work, where I am scrolling TikTok. 30 minutes of my lunch break is when I go through Reddit while eating my little burrito or whatever you have. And then like you said at the end of the day, 30 minutes at the end of the day is when I do my work stuff on Instagram. So, like, physically put that in your physical calendar, put it in your phone calendar, whatever helps. I do both just because I need it. But yeah, just to make sure that this is still a part of your life in a way that doesn’t feel out of control. Because that’s when to me it sounds like you want to change. It is when it feels like you can’t stop yourselfes.
Speaker A: Yeah. And there are apps out there if you really can’t stop yourself and you want help with that. A couple of the apps include break free cell phone addiction. Another one is called Quality Time. These apps track how often and when you most frequently use your different social media and then help you to trim that time down and be more deliberate about when you use it. So it’s not so much I’m addicted and I just found the phone in my hand. I didn’t even know how the phone got in my hand. And before you know it, I’ve spent six hours on this phone looking at other people’s drama. But there are a lot of apps out there. That’s just two apps I mentioned, but there are lots of them out there. Because this is such a real problem for so many people. There are a lot of apps that are out there to try and help folks get that under control.
Speaker B: Right.
Speaker A: And you know, a lot of us feel that way. I’ve definitely gone through my periods of life where, oh no, it’s been weeks now, where I stay up till 2o CL in the morning every night reading about people’s drama online. I’ve done that. The am I an a****** stuff on Reddit. I’ve fallen into that trap before. I get it. So you’re not alone in this. But there are definitely tools and strategies and Worst case scenario, if you feel like none of these tools or strategies are working for you, I would encourage you to maybe look for help outside that little clinic in your town that your insurance covers. There are ways to get help through universities, for example, mental health helplines and so on, where they might be able to give you other strategies that we’re not giving you here. But yeah, I know a lot of people over the years who went to university psychology departments for help when they couldn’t afford therapy. That may be an option for you. It can be done remotely, not in person nowadays too. So it doesn’t even have to be a university that’s within an hour of your house. It might be a little bit further.
Speaker B: Yeah. Another one that I like to use, especially when I’m at my work computer, I really like to have lo fi on while I’m doing work. And one of my favorite streamers is lo fi girl on YouTube and they actually now have a new live stream that’s a study versus, like study break time. So I think they’ll do like 25 minutes where you and lo fi girl, she’s in the library and you’re like doing your little work and click clacking your little keys and doing your little job and she’s in the library, like studying for a little test. And 25 minutes will go by and then you get a little ding on the live stream and then you get like 10 minutes where you and lo fi girl, like do your mind list st brain stuff like scroll through your phone. So, like there are different s and that’s free. If you can go on YouTube, that’s free. So yeah, like, this is definitely you are on the right track. You have something that worked. Taking all of these apps off of your phone worked. I say do that. Continue to do that. And Kristen, like you said, there’s so many different options of different apps that you can use as well. So best of luck, friend.
Speaker A: Yes. You got this letter writer. You can do it. Well, those are all the questions we have for this week. It has been so fun and hopefully helpful for you, our listeners. Vic, can you let our listeners know where they can get more view?
Speaker B: Oh, yeah, totally. So you can follow my work at my website. It’s victoriaheartwwitley.com. i’m also on Twitter under hashag Tori whitley and on Instagram as v wit b. I know all of them are different. I’m using different names. I have different names and I like them all and so I use them all. I’m sorry about it, but my website is probably the best place you can find me. Victoria spelled the typical way that you spell it, and then heart, H, R, T because it’s my middle name and I like it. And then Whitley, so that’s what you can find.
Speaker A: Excent. Yes, everybody check Vic out. And for more of me, you can listen to my podcasts by the Book and how to Be Fine. I also host a show for the Mayo Clinic called Health Matters, and recent episodes include ones about adhd, which came up in this week’s episode, as well as episodes covering our brain on news. So that may be of service to some folks out there.
Speaker B: Oh, I need to listen to those because my brain is suffering about the news, so I’m gonna need to listen to that.
Speaker A: Me and you and everybody we know. Vic listeners, do you need help getting along with partners, relatives, coworkers, and people in general? Write to Prudy go to slate.com prudy that’s slate.com p r u die e the dear Prudence column publishes every Thursday. Dear Prudence was produced this week by Moraurie editorial help from Paula de Veroona, Daisy Rosaro is senior supervising producer, and Alicia Montgomery is Slate’s VP of audio. And I’m your guest, Prudence Kristen Mezer. That’s all for this episode, but join us on today’s episode of Prudy plus, where Vic and I answer a question from someone who wants to be a little bit more transparent with her friends. Subscribe now on Apple Podcast by clicking Try Free at the top of our show page or visit slate.comcommprudypus to get access wherever you listen. The episode is available for you to listen to right now. We’ll see you there.