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Proposals for closing projects/Soft close of Greek Wikinews

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This is a proposal for closing and/or deleting a wiki hosted by the Wikimedia Foundation. It is subject to the current closing projects policy.

The proposal is accepted and the proposed actions should be taken.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Unless the front page widget is broken, and isn't displaying new articles, the last new content was Καταδίκη της Βορείου Κορέας από το Συμβούλιο Ασφαλείας του ΟΗΕ, or "North Korea condemns UN Security Council", September 16, 2017. -- Zanimum (talk) 20:12, 25 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

While I'm neutral as far as the proposal is concerned since the project is almost dead for the last 5-6 months, it's worth mentioning that the front page is not updating properly. There were some new items in 2018: eg, check this user's contributions: n:el:Ειδικό:Συνεισφορές/Nikosgranturismogt. I'm pinging the following editor's as I think they could contribute a more insightfull thought in the discussion from the perpective of the former contributor.
User:Nikosgranturismogt as the last active contributor (still active in el.wiki).
User:Glavkos as admin, not active.
User:Nataly8, as former admin, not active.
User:Xaris333, as former admin, not active, active in el.wiki.
User:Patriot8790, as former admin, not active, active in el.wiki.—Ah3kal (talk) 09:40, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, that's better than I realized! (If it did work, that front page code would be amazing for other Wikinewses.) Thank you for pinging the users.
Stupid question: If Greek Wikipedia wanted to host news, could it? Is mixed content allowed by Wikimedia? I do wonder if there'd be more activity if news was on a different namespace of Wikipedia, as opposed to on a different website altogether. (It would be ultimately subject to Greek Wikipedia's approval, but it might be a model for other less active projects to consider.) -- Zanimum (talk) 17:28, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I've notified the Greek Wikimedia mailing list, which has been inactive since March 2017: https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikiel/ -- Zanimum (talk) 17:40, 26 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Comment Through my check onwiki and from the dump there is some small activity in 2019, the latest articles are n:el:Εμιλιάνο Σάλα: Ολοκληρώθηκαν χωρίς αποτέλεσμα οι έρευνες για τον εντοπισμό του ποδοσφαιριστή in January from an IP and n:el:Το υπουργείο Εξωτερικών της Βρετανίας έδωσε συγχαρητήρια σε Ελλάδα και Βόρεια Μακεδονία in February from User:Xaris333. It's not only the front page not updating properly but the whole process would need to change: it needs at least two users to "publish" an article, the "editor" and the "reviewer" (that is why the newer article did not appear in the front page). Obviously this cannot work in a wiki with little participation. If the process is changed in order that a user can publish an article immediately, it may attract some new users. When they manage to reach a number of users they can reinstitute the old quality check process. -Geraki TL 08:41, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

That's a strong idea, allowing direct publishing to spur new users. (A limited number of reviewers is a problem on English Wikinews, even, but we're subject to more spam.) I wonder whether this self-publish option could be a permission granted to trusted contributors, perhaps three articles and then you get the technical ability? -- Zanimum (talk) 21:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from LangCom clerk
  1. For notification, I would suggest placing a notice (in Greek and English) at Talk:Wikimedia Community User Group Greece. "Wikimedia Greece" isn't a chapter yet, only a "chapter in discussion". wikimedia.gr doesn't really seem to be operating. And as you said, the mail list is inactive. So I think the page I listed is probably the best remaining alternative. (Possibly put a notification on Greek Wikipedia, too.)
  2. It is permissible for Greek Wikipedia to host news. There are projects where this happens. See Wikinews#Languages that use Wikipedia to serve their Wikinews, though I'm pretty sure that list is longer now. But that's up to the community at elwiki to decide.
    • If the community moves in that direction, we can try to help move anything needing moving, and then will close this project.
  3. As for whether or not the article review process can be weakened, particularly if only one or two people are contributing, that's a tricky one. Contacting LangCom member and steward MF-Warburg for guidance. Thoughts, MF-W? StevenJ81 (talk) 14:57, 27 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for including that link! I didn't look around to see whether the idea had ever been proposed, let alone adopted by an existing Wikipedia community. (Note, as of this note, I have not posted to the User Group.) -- Zanimum (talk) 21:05, 28 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't see why there should be a problem with not having an article review process like on en.wn. Greek Wikinews doesn't need to use processes from English Wikinews, especially not if they don't (currently) work for it. --MF-W 20:50, 5 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@MF-Warburg, I was more wondering if given the (low) activity/participant level, a process that was adopted when the project was busier can be suspended by the small current community. At minimum, I'd think a steward (or maybe a global sysop) ought to look at things and make sure everyone's doing this in a reasonable way. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:10, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I think that is unproblematic. --MF-W 13:42, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Completely inactive project. (except if we rename it wikiolds :-)) Eni vak (speak) 09:31, 3 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Support No enough content and no activity. --Doostdar (talk) 07:24, 9 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Summary to this point

[edit]

I'm just going to summarize where we are at the moment. Someone correct me if you think I don't have this correct.

@Ah3kal, thank you in advance for lending a hand with this. You have the rights, and you speak the language. I don't, and I don't.
  1. It doesn't seem as if anyone is objecting to establishing a soft closure for the time being.
    • If we do this, I'll instruct you on how to do it.
  2. On Greek Wikinews itself, if you would like to relax the article review process, that seems to be acceptable. Publish your intent to do that, along with the rules that you intend to use, on the local Village Pump-equivalent (I think n:el:Βικινέα:Καφενείο). If there are no objections in a week, then you can implement the new rules.
    • Be very careful quite how widely you open this up, though. If you're going to say, for example, that anyone autoconfirmed can publish directly, then at least make sure that autoconfirmed has both a time and edit threshold before kicking in.
  3. If you think moving news over to a section/namespace of Greek Wikipedia is a better approach, then start a discussion on the appropriate page in Greek Wikipedia. Allow a robust discussion, and allow a full month, unless the reaction is so lopsided (one way or the other) that waiting is unnecessary.
    • You should also start a discussion on Greek Wikinews, though I suspect that part of it won't be contentious.
    • If this happens, we'll need to set a variety of things in motion, including (a) a phabricator to add the new namespace, plus (b) one of the importers to move current content there. But we don't need to take such actions until and unless this is actually going to happen.

In the short run, the only thing directly under LangCom's jurisdiction (and even that, only sort of) is #1. Unless I hear in the next day or two that I'm wrong about #1, we'll promptly establish a soft close here.

  • I will say that if part of the issue has to do with the front page simply not working right, go to Tech and see if someone can help you fix it.

Item #2 is really entirely the business of the Greek Wikinews community itself. @Ah3kal, it's within your purview as global sysop to keep an eye on any discussion and implementation of that type, especially since the only listed sysop there (Glavkos) seems to be inactive.
Similarly, to decide whether to implement #3 is entirely the business of the two wiki communities themselves. If both projects agree to this, then ping me here on Meta, and I will start working with you to implement the decision. StevenJ81 (talk) 14:37, 10 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Closing comment

[edit]

Request is approved, and a soft close will be put in place. (@Ah3kal: Go ahead.)

  • Note that the community itself can decide to reverse a soft closure. If you want to do that at some point in the future, just start a discussion at n:el:Βικινέα:Καφενείο. If it's successful, then move the Main Page back to its original location, overwriting the soft close page, and you will be good to go. Still, I would not recommend that until and unless (a) someone fixes the code on the front page, and (b) there is a reasonable amount of ongoing activity to support "reopening" the project.
  • I do recommend having someone fix the front page, "just in case".
  • If you decide that the best place for news will be inside Wikipedia, then once both communities agree to that, create a request for a full closure of Greek Wikinews, with incorporation into Greek Wikipedia, and we'll try to help you then.

Good luck! StevenJ81 (talk) 16:06, 13 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
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